Today is the day that a documentary entitled "The Lost Tomb of Jesus"
will be on the discovery channel. It is also the first day in my investigation into the nature of belief, which as Socrates said, is the "short-cut to thinking". I have been perusing around the web to various atheist and christian websites. So far most atheist website proclaims this new evidence as a solid refutation of the cornerstone of christian faith. While every Christian site proclaims this as just a bunch of fabricated b/s.
Despite the fact that the show has not aired yet, most people are already formed their opinions about the validity of it. Further evidence that holding on to an opinion skews the way you view everything. A fellow carpenter once told me to "keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out...." I would like to add on to his quote: "...but not so closed that nothing else gets in."
I hope everyone will watch tonight from an objective chair, yet i suspect the agnostics will be the only ones who learn anything tonight. Its on Discovery Channel on March 4 at 9 p.m. ET/PT. Here is the official press release
On a humorous note, i have read that many people propose the idea of Jesus being cloned, (atheist of course) not the kind of Resurrection that Christians believe in. Check out this site for a laugh.
12 comments:
For a comprehensive and scholarly rebuttal of the film’s evidence please visit ExtremeTheology.com.
Read and hear the evidence fore yourself.
Thanks for further proving my hypothesis. Chris Rosenbrough.
Another Christian dismisses the documentary without even seeing it.
I hardly doubt that any website called ExtremeTheology is going to have any information that isn't, bias or agenda driven.
Do you really think that any Christian is going to pursue an objective investigation into this case? Im making an assumption here but, i gotta believe that any Christian organization is going to look into this with the purpose of discrediting it.
And where the hell are you watching this show? it's 5:20, and won't even be on air for another hour and a half? How would you know what evidence to refute?
Again i think I'll watch it FIRST, then if i choose to investigate the credibility, i'll try to find a websource that isn't completely agenda driven. Thanks for your comment.
Don't forget his last adventure trying to disprove the Bible here
Who sided with James Cameron, anyway? Did anyone believe it?
Ummm, Rev?
Aren't you doing the same thing your accusing Chris of doing? Aren't you dismissing his evidence out of hand based on presumed bias? By the way, I don't see anywhere in his comment that he is a Christian, unless you know something I don't. As long as I'm on the subject, it would take a great deal of naivety to assume the creators of this film have no agenda. Am I supposed to believe the recent rash of "evidence" against the tenets of Christianity, (The Devinci Code, The Gospel of Judas, and now The Tomb of Jesus) are just coincidents?? If Hollywood suddenly has just become interested in the basis of religions, why aren't they attacking other religions,like, say, Islam? Am I supposed to believe this has nothing to do with Hollywood's recent advocacy for gay agendas and the opposition by the Christians of that agenda? If you truly want to be open-minded about this, you shouldn't assume that Christians can't look at this objectively, but somehow Hollywood can. Great post for discussion though-Kudos.
@ H.C.:
Aren't you doing the same thing your accusing Chris of doing? Aren't you dismissing his evidence out of hand based on presumed bias?
Absolutely not, Suppose the word around the 'blogosphere' gets out that you are going to post a blog about lets say...Marijuana Reform.
Now, before you can officially post your blog, chris comes to me with a complete rebuttal of your proposal. Do you think it would be fair and objective for me to listen to the rebuttal to an arguement i haven't even heard?
i certainly don't.
By the way, I don't see anywhere in his comment that he is a Christian, unless you know something I don't.
Yes H.C. I do know something that you don't, because i took the time to do a google search on his name, knowing that any past comments would show up, i then investigated some of his views and determined he's certainly Christian.
Now if the "Lost Tomb of Jesus" was presented by the Extreme Atheist Oganization, i might not even have watched it, but it was aired on The Discovery channel which has many christian supportive documentaries i hardly feel like it was agenda driven, obviously from a filmakers perspective there is some money to be made, if it was the tomb of some random guy nobody would care.
The fact that there are 19, million Christians in America has alot to do with why we don't see to many islamic documentaries. Although discovery did do a complete series about the roots of 9/11 which is an investigation into the islamic world. As well as several other documentaries on Christianity. You've gotta remember that the Discovery Channel is a science based show, but its hardly anti-Christian.
you shouldn't assume that Christians can't look at this objectively, but somehow Hollywood can.
I didn't assume, i searched the web, i looked at probably 20 different Christian Blog/Websites. I Didn't mention the number in my post but i did state in regard to my search that "So Far" every bit of evidence supported my position. That doesn't rule out every Christian just the sites that i observed. However i would like to challenge you to find at least 2 CHRISTIAN websites that don't TOTALLY disregard the documentary.
By the way im less inclined to believe that hollywood has some kind of conspiracy plot against Christians. Maybe there are a couple of directors but Hollywood cranks out thousands of movies every year, very very few attempt to discredit Christianity. Many promote the idea of an afterlife, i can't even name all the movies i've seen with christain themes.
The DaVinci Code was a fictional storyline that referenced historical occurances, I didn't feel any anti-Christianism, but i'm not a Christian.
Did you even watch the documentary H.c?
Hey Rev.
1)"I hardly doubt that any website called ExtremeTheology is going to have any information that isn't, bias or agenda driven." That sounded to me like you didn't even go there to see what he had to say. Thereby doing the same thing you are accusing him of. If I'm wrong it's because of your statement.
2)That's why I said, "unless you know something I don't." You do, so I concede that point.
3)Discovery Channel doesn't PRODUCE these films. The finger I'm pointing isn't even at Discovery Channel, it's at Hollywood. So I don't understand your point. You should look at James Cameron and his agendas as harshly as you judged Chris.
4)"Im making an assumption here but, i gotta believe that any Christian organization is going to look into this with the purpose of discrediting it." You make that statement and then say, and I quote, "I didn't assume, i searched the web." Which is it?
5) You may be less inclined to believe in any Hollywood conspiracy but name me one Christian producer besides Mel Gibson. (And he got NO backing from Hollywood.)
6) In summary, it still sounds like you defend Hollywood and atack Christians which doesn't seem objective to me.
P.S.
I missed one point. No, I haven't seen it yet which is why I didn't comment on it's content. But I did see enough interviews with it's creators to get the gist of what it's about; "We found Jesus' Family Tomb and if these are his bones as we are asserting, then how could he have risen on the third day?" Did I miss something?
H.C.
I always prefer to listen to the Point someone is trying to make, before i hear a rebuttle. Again why would anyone listen to a rebuttle before they even know what the topic of debate is?
If chris just offered a website out of the blue. I would not dismiss it. By the way i did visit the site AFTER i watched the documentary. That way i knew what the site was refering to when it said things like "in the film this or that happened, here is why its wrong"
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the hollywoods agenda, i just don't see it.
In regard to my assumption, feel like your just picking at words and digging for a contradiction,
When i responded to Chris i stated that i assume that "any Christian organization is going to look into this with the purpose of discrediting it."
For the sake of literal consistancy, in my reply to Chris i would like to retract "I'm making an assumption here" and replace it with a more accurate "Based on my research i feel that"
My position is clear, I've pointed out my research, the evidence supports my hypothesis. This was all mentioned in my orginal post.
I found the documentary to be incredibly interesting, though I think its creators should have made sure to cover all of their bases prior to releasing it. Bottom line is that if you're going to put your neck out there (and James Cameron really put his neck out there...don't expect any major studios to get behind him anytime soon), make sure that your documentary is as air-tight as possible.
However, on the other side of the coin, I do see what Sasha whatever (the Co-Creator of the film) was talking about when he repeatedly stated that he was a "filmmaker", not a "scientist", & that the "scientist" aspects should be left to the "scientists". That makes sense to me, but, because this isn't a documentary on the mating habits of sheep, I probably would have gone the extra few steps in anticipation of what the critics would say. But then again, I'm not a filmmaker either, so wtf do I know?
And was Ted Koppel not an ass during that follow-up interview? I was trying to consider the fact that it was the filmmakers themselves that started this, as the pro-christian camp didn't make a claim w/ potential world-wide implications, but he still came off to me as an unobjective ass.
-n
I agree with the Rev about his argument against the HC. I don't know what's wrong with HC but it really does sound like he's nitpicking and trying to split hairs. First of all, I don't think that Hollywood has an agenda against Christianity. Why would they? Christians are the majority in America why would they alienate their core audience? Other than this documentary and the Davinci Code (which is based on a best selling book, and they always turn best selling books into movies so don't blame Hollywood for that one) what movies are you referring to that have this so-called anti-christian agenda? I rent at least 4 to 5 movies a week, I've seen just about everything, and I don't see anything that would lead me to beleive that Hollywood is turning anti-christian.
Maybe you say this because as you say, "Hollywood's advocacy of a gay agenda". Just because Hollywood gives homosexuals roles in movies and make certain homosexual characters likeable does not mean it qualifies as an agenda. I think it's more of an anti-fascism agenda. Hollywood has always been about breaking down boundaries and showing the world from a view that might take one out of his own element for a couple hours to contemplate if what they previously thought was valid. Like it or not gays make up 9 to 10% of the human race...and this just in, homosexuals are people too and they actually deserve rights and to work at the same jobs as straights are entitled to.
How many times have you watched a movie when a satanist, atheist, Wiccan or other type of heretic was the hero? Now, how many times have you seen a movie with a Christian hero? Odds are the Christian heroes in movie roles probably outnumber the ladder by about 100 to 1 (probably more, I'm being generous). Give me a break, Mel Gibson makes a movie that would have better been called "Guy gets beat to death for 3 hours...and there is alot of sand" I have never seen Hollywood praise someone so much for such a shitty movie!! No plot, generic camera work, even from a biblical standpoint it jumps around from the 4 books of Jesus' life so much I can't tell if it's the book of John, Luke, Matthew, or Mark because it seems to change from scene to scene. However it was hailed by critics and it raked in more money than any movie since the Titanic (which James Cameron also directed). You know how has an anti-christian view of Hollywood?? GOD!!! During the filming of The Passion 2 people were struck by lightning on the set. One of the guys was Jim Caviezel, the same guy that was portraying Jesus!! The two incidents were months apart so you can't blame it on a "just one really bad storm". To be honest this is probably the most proof that God exists that any of us will ever see in this lifetime. I think that's just a little too coincidental that someone that is in the middle of doing his lines as Jesus Christ is struck by lightning. I'm not sure what it was that made god so mad, Maybe it was Mel Gibson turning a buck on his sons death, maybe the bible is wrong and god wishes people would stop making such a big deal out of a common man, but I think it's more because God knew how bad the movie was gonna suck and he wanted to save people from paying 8$ a pop for movie tickets for that festering turd of a movie.
By the way HC on another point showbiz is doing plenty to villify Islam. United 93, World Trade Center, Sleeper Cell: American Terror, a movie entitled "Osama" that wasn't about Bin Laden, it was about the raising of children in Afghanistan and how screwed up it is. There are many others, especially if you pay attention to Sundance festival films and documentaries.
I think Revs main point is this.
A) Christians will disregard anything that contradicts their preconceived notions regardless of how factual it is.
B) Non beleivers will try to turn every little scrap of evidence, no matter how flawed into the greatest discovery since the lightbulb.
I didn't see the documentary so I'm out of my element on that topic. I just wanted to write because I saw you guys were talking about movies and Hollywood and wanted to chime in. Sorry HC you know I still got mad love for you. Kudos Rev!!
Thanks tabor, for the props' I happen to side with you on this one, with one exception,
which is that i don't mean to imply that all individual christians are narrow-minded or all atheist are throwing anything and everything at christianity. There are alot of exceptions im sure, but i think that when it comes to preconceived notions about god and religion, this view will cover the majority. Perhaps even the over-whelming majority.
as for the movie referances, i don't have your knowledge about movies, so i would have to say your a better judge about the hollywood agenda than me, It's a nice point that you make about
Christians are the majority in America why would they alienate their core audience?
I think that is a very relavent argument for our position.
Thanks for the comment.
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