The Prime Mover Debate: Conclusion

Here is my conclusion to the Prime Mover debate that I have been enjoying with Richard Bushey of ThereforeGodExists.com  A complete dialog of the debate will be posted soon. But if you wish to be current please review these links in order.

Bushey's introduction

My introduction

Bushey's rebuttal

My rebuttal

Bushey's second rebuttal

My second rebuttal

Bushey's three questions

My three questions

Bushey's conclusion

My Conclusion 

Mr. Bushey claims that “The infinite doesn't exist in nature”  and he opts to verify this statement by using thought experiments.  I have responded that nature is absurd and therefore a logical contradiction cannot disprove nature.  I've supported this by showing how classical logic has no weight in the quantum realm.  One need only Google the famous double slit experiment, quantum superposition or quantum tunneling  to find that classical logic is not universal.   

Bushey feels that I did not address his objection to my claim that contradictory statements can sometimes be simultaneously true.   I find this frustrating since I did address this objection, twice.  He simply doesn't acknowledge any of my responses; he doesn't admit that there is such a thing as quantum logic and that it is incompatible with classic logic. Instead he simply plows onward re-stating ad nauseam that the claim “two contradictory statements can be simultaneously true” is self defeating.   He marvels endlessly at the nonsensical outcome of applying classical logical rules to the absurdity of quantum facts.  Bushey is essentially claiming that quantum mechanics cannot be true since its principles are self defeating.  I hope he reconsiders.

My 3 questions were designed to illustrate the inconsistency in Mr. Bushey’s  logic.  The 1^st question was meant to show that supernatural hypothesis’ are irrational since a supernatural event is essentially defined when something is explainable.  Please note that transcendent and supernatural are synonymous.  Bushey contends that his argument deductively arrives at the conclusion of a transcendent cause.  My claim is that unless he has deductively eliminated all possible natural explanations, then his logic is flawed.  He writes:

“I think there are many conceivable instances wherein it would be irrational to cast doubt upon the supernatural as an explanation, even when there are possible natural explanations” 

……Like comets crashing into the moon spelling out "Jesus is lord"!? Note that Bushey couldn't provide an actual instance to illustrate this point.  

The 2^nd question was meant to illustrate one simple truth: no one prefers a priori deductions over scientific conclusions.  Deductive reasoning alone cannot produce technology, it has cured no diseases and we should be skeptical of its claims to know the origins of the universe. The 3^rd question Implies that a claim about the cause of the universe ought to make a prediction about that cause which could be empirically verified or falsified.  One cannot apply this concept to itself because the statement “a good theory ought to be empirically provable” doesn't make any specific claims about nature.   Bushey’s objection that this is self defeating arises from a sort of equivocation fallacy.   I find it odd that he thinks a good theory shouldn't require empirical verification to succeed.  I don’t find it odd that he could not propose an experiment to verify the necessity of a prime mover.  

Bushey's argument failed to prove that infinity doesn't exist in nature, failed to prove how a mind can exist without a body, time or space, failed to eliminate all natural explanations in order to prove the necessity of a transcendent explanation and failed to show how a prime mover could be empirically verifiable through experimentation.   Therefore, the argument for a prime mover fails. 

The Prime Mover Debate: 3 Questions

This is the continuation of my debate with Richard Bushey of ThereForeGodExists.com.  We are debating whether or not a "Prime Mover" is necessary and we are at the point in the debate where each of us gets the opportunity to pose 3 questions to our opponent.  Mr. Bushey's turn was first. His questions and my responses are below. If you wish to make yourself current with the progression of the debate, please scroll down to the previous post which contains links to our discussion so far.

Question 1:
If time and space had a cause, would you agree that it follows that the cause must transcend time and space?

The Prime Mover Debate: Second Rebuttal

If you are a frequent visitor to this blog, you may have noticed that I've been participating in a blog-debate with Richard Bushey of thereforegodexists.com.  The purpose of this post will be to present my second rebuttal to his position that a “Prime Mover” is necessary to explain why the universe exists.  To be current with the dialog that follows in this post you may wish to review the following links:

Bushey’s Introduction

My Introduction

Bushey’s First Rebuttal

My First Rebuttal

Bushey’s Second Rebuttal

 

My Second Rebuttal

During this debate, I’ve spent a considerable amount of time trying to explain my objections to Mr. Bushey’s argument, specifically on the subject of contradictory statements and the existence of infinity in nature. To begin with let’s discuss a key point of contention between us. My position is based on observations in quantum mechanics which prove that it is possible for two contradictory statements to be simultaneously true.  Based on this fact we can further conclude:

1. Logical contradictions exist in nature
2. Demonstrating a logical contradiction is not a reliable way to disprove natural phenomenon.
3. Classical logic is not the end-all to problem solving in nature, since, on a quantum level it doesn't apply

Bushey has disagreed in two separate replies, stating that to question the Law of Non-Contradiction (LNC) is self defeating and I’ll allow the reader to review his exact statements.  However to my great pleasure I would like to point out that I am not the first person to question the LNC.  It is at very least open to debate and the line of thinking is like this: The laws of nature are just descriptions of what we consistently observe in nature.   If scientists observe some new phenomenon, they don’t discredit it as a violation of law, they rewrite the law to fit what is observed.  The rules of Logic should be open to the same revision. 

There is a wonderful book called “The Law of Non-Contradiction”, in which my summary above is presented:

“….It is possible to revise logical principles or logical rules on the basis of extra-logical considerations-which include empirical considerations.”

Specifically, the authors outline an “Argument from Quantum Mechanics” which concludes:

“The main idea is that,…. classical logic simply provides the wrong results when applied to the quantum domain. The overall structure of the latter domain is not adequately represented by classical logic; but it is by quantum logic.”

The LNC is not as universally accepted as Bushey has presented it to be in his rebuttals.  These objections are fatal to his argument, not just to his conclusion that the past cannot be infinite, but also to the entire methodology by which Bushey has arrived at ALL of his conclusions, that is: Philosophically without empirical support.

Science

I have had the pleasure of reading Alexander Vilenkin’s book called “Many Worlds in One” from which Bushey offered a quote. Unfortunately for theists, on the very next page Vilenkin writes:

“…The theorem that I proved with my colleagues does not give much of an advantage to the theologian over the scientist…. Religion is not immune to the paradoxes of creation.”

“…Scientists have been to rash to admit that the cosmic beginning cannot be described in purely scientific terms. True, it is hard to see how this can be done. But things that seem to be impossible often reflect only the limitation of our imagination.”

The very next chapter of his book is called “Creation of Universes from Nothing”, in which he explains in scientific terms exactly how the universe could have spontaneously come into being from a literal nothing.  Another interesting feature of the Borde Guth Vilenkin Theorem is that while suggesting a finite past, it also suggests eternal inflation of our universe into the future.  It also suggests the creation of an infinite amount of alternate universes in which everything that could possibly happen: does happen. According to Vilenkin, there is an alternate universe in which a Richard Bushey exists who is in total agreement with my argument.  

Unanswered Objections

I discussed in my previous rebuttal that Bushey’s claim that a mind with causal authority can exist without space, time or a body; places a burden of proof upon him.  This is also a fatal objection if unanswered.  

Conclusion

Indeed the past may very well be finite, though as I mentioned before, such a claim if true, will be proven by science.  So why not skip the logic and paradoxes and just go straight to science to support a finite past?  The answer is because the Kalam is totally dependent upon a philosophical conclusion, and its proponents must distance themselves from science because empirical evidence disagrees with the concept of timeless, spaceless, bodiless, universe-creating minds with causal authority.   Again, I haven’t argued at such length because I believe the past is infinite.  I argue because I disagree with the way in which Bushey makes his conclusions, and the same flawed methodology is employed to make additional conclusions which I absolutely DO NOT agree with, specifically the claim that a prime mover is necessary.

On Choosing Atheism over Agnosticism

There is a misconception in American culture that unless you are 100% certain of God's existence, then one ought to self-identify as an agnostic. This is inaccurate, and what is worse is that the mislabeling provides shelter to bad religious ideas. Once the title of agnostic is worn, one feels they are in a non-position to comment or disagree with religious ideology. "Who knows the real truth? Who am I to disagree?" As a former agnostic, I found myself defending religion, not because I believed in it, but because I felt atheists were guilty of the same logic-crimes as a religious person: claiming to know the unknowable. It wasn't until a few years ago that I realized I had mislabeled myself as an agnostic. As it turns out, my mistake was purely in the definition of the terms.

The Prime Mover Debate: First Rebuttal

This is a continuation of the "prime mover" debate I am participating in with Richard Bushey of ThereforeGodExists.com  If you wish to be current on our dialog so far, please read the following links.

His introduction

My introduction

His first rebuttal

My first rebuttal 

In my response to Mr. Bushey’s debate introduction and argument for the existence of a “prime mover” I raised a several objections. To my objections, Mr. Bushey’s has kindly responded in his rebuttal. Yet, despite his response, my objections remain unsatisfied. 

To Be and Not To Be

My first objection was in regard to the paradoxes offered as proof that the infinite cannot exist in reality.  Bushey insists that the mathematical notion of infinity, when applied to real-life thought experiments, will produce logical absurdities and therefore prove the non-existence of infinity.  My response was that a mathematic paradox which produces logical absurdity does not prove non-existence.  I offered a well known example of quantum mechanics, a thought experiment called Schrodinger’s Cat, in which it can be simultaneously true that a cat exist in a living and dead state.  Bushey correctly identified the effect which produces the Schrodinger Cat thought experiment as quantum superposition.  Unfortunately, that was the end of his correctness on the subject.  His interpretation of quantum superposition was that it implies contradictory states 

The Prime Mover Debate

I recently exchanged a few tweets with an Christian apologist on twitter. As it turns out: we couldn't agree on very much. So I suggested that the topic was too big for a 140 character limit. He then politely referred me to his blog which contains an excellent pre-fabricated debate format. I chose the topic of "first cause", a popular point of contention between atheists and theists.  The debate format is as follows:

1 Introduction (1500 words or less) per debater.
1 long rebuttal (1000 words or less) per debater.
1 short rebuttal (750 words or less) per debater.
(This dialogue is temporarily suspended after short rebuttal)
3 questions posed for the other debater to answer (the answer to the 3 questions will be in 750 total words or less) per debater.
1 closing statement to end the debate (500 words or less) per debater.

The person who is making the affirmative case (depending on the topic) will make the first introduction while the other will make the last conclusion.

I think this is a fantastic idea. My Co-debater is Mr. Bushey of ThereforeGodExists.com and he was kind enough to send a link to his debate introduction which was posted on his blog. A link is provided in my introduction below. We shall continue the debate, posting our responses on our own blogs until the debate is complete. With Mr. Busheys permission, I shall post the debate in its entirety after it is complete.

So without further ado.

I recommend reading Mr. Bushey's 1500 introduction first and it can be viewed here: http://thereforegodexists.com/2013/01/is-a-prime-mover-necessary/

.... mine is posted below.

Introduction

For centuries, without empirical data, philosophers and theologians have pondered the origin of the universe.  Theists claim that certain philosophical arguments like the Kalam Cosmological are philosophical proof of a supernatural primary mover, that is: an uncaused-cause which exists necessarily, outside of space-time, and initiated the causal chain of our universe.  Most even take it a step further to provide philosophical proof that this primary mover must be a personal being.

The concept of God and evil are incompatible

The age old question: Is the concept of an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God compatible with evil?  It has been debated amongst theists and atheists for centuries. I have been participating in a little debate on the subject myself recently. Despite my repeated attempts to reach some type of consensus, my opponent repeatedly dodged my questions, and when one issue was addressed another sprung up, until, he finally directed me to the author of his beliefs: William Lane Craig. Craig is a philosopher who is also a Christian who argues in favor of Gods existence. The essay i was directed to was called The Problem Of Evil, and is a Theist response to the "age old question". I would recommend that you read through the seemingly convincing argument put forth by Craig, before reading my reply. However, i have set up this post as a imaginary dialog between myself and Craig, so the basics are here. Anyone who disagrees with my representation of William Craig's position, can check the essay, and offer a correction in the comment section at the bottom of this rebuttal. 

Response to Rae

I recently received a comment from a Christian reader named Rae. The comment was in response to my creationism refuted post. Rae's comments seem summarize a very typical response to scientist's explanations for the origin of the universe. I thought i would post his comment together with my response for you all to read. Please feel free to reference the original post about creationism if you like, though it is not necessary to follow the debate. Comments are welcome and encouraged. :)

Rae's comment:
I am a believer in God. Here are my thoughts: We are both making basic foundational assumptions. Mine, of course, is that no matter how it was made, the universe was created by a more supreme being. Science, then, would attempt to continually discover more about what was made and how it works. Your basic assumption is that all can be explained through naturalistic means. The problem is that no matter how many naturalistic theories are formed to explain the existence of our universe, something exists - which shouldn't if there is no outside influence. What I mean is this: Okay, what if there is a parent universe, or something outside this universe that spawned it? And maybe there is something beyond that which spawned it. Even if at the very beginning of the chain that "something" which eventually caused this universe is found to be infinite, that "something" contains ingredients. Whether that is matter or some unknown substance is irrelevant. Those ingredients exist. How? Why? Science can never answer how or why at that point. (Not that science usually answers the question "why?") So I am going to conclude that it is logical to believe that a Supreme Being who humans can't fully understand and who is outside of that which contains these "ingredients", outside of nature, caused this universe and everything in it. I don't believe that God created parent universes and so on, but that is because I, for now, have no reason to believe he did. It sounds like those theories are not scientific but instead are purely philosophical, and absolutely based on the assumption that all can be explained through naturalistic means. You may believe I am filling in the gaps with "God" (I disagree), but I believe you are just filling in the gaps with "We'll know later." I also need to add that there seems to be much more evidence outside of this topic that points to a Creator, and when all is put together and considered, belief in God is, I think, quite plausible. For example: the Bible is by far the most historically sound document in existence. To reject the events that occurred, specifically the events surrounding Christ and the resurrection, you must reject it on means other than the historicity of the Bible, which is being confirmed more and more as we learn and discover new information about the past. And I know that is not what this debate is about, but my point is if the resurrection can't be refuted, than it is absolutely logical to start with the basic assumption that God created the universe. With that, I respect your views and thank you for taking the time to read mine! My Response:

Ok Rae, I don't think that I will be able to persuade you into thinking that a natural explanation is more plausible than supernatural. BUT I will try.

I will start with this, which has already been addressed to Barry. Belief with justification by evidence is not the same as belief without justification or evidence. I believe that unanswered questions will have natural explanations because that is what has happened over and over and over throughout the history of human understanding. I believe events have natural causes, because the evidence supports that idea.

Please remember Rae, that any understanding of cause and effect in our world is founded completely on natural, explainable hypotheses supported with observation and evidence. Imagine the massive wealth of understanding about the observed events in this universe: ALL accepted explanations are entirely naturally based. Humanity has observed the confirmation of that fact over and over throughout the history of science. Yet here you are, suddenly reaching the next frontier of knowledge and expecting a different result? How is that logical at all? It cannot be. Furthermore, I do not think it is logical for you to conclude that a supernatural force must exist outside of nature which is the cause of any event. Over and over we have learned that things have natural causes, why would it be logical to expect a different result that conflicts with the past observations? It is not a valid conclusion because science has never observed a supernatural cause and scientists have no data or evidence to suggest such an existence is even possible.


Granted, I know that I cannot prove that god does not exist, but hopefully at this point I have clarified why “God did it” is not a logical alternative hypothesis to explain issues that “Scientist cannot yet explain”.
It is acceptable to believe that all problems have a solution. It is acceptable to say: “I do not know the answer to this problem.” It is not acceptable to say: “The solution to this problem is a supernatural concept, which I have no evidence to support.” It conclusion, I say history, observable and documented evidence compiled by over two hundred years of research lends credibility to the concept that these problems have natural solutions. There is no data, research and or observable evidence which supports the notion of a supernatural anything. Rae, you are more than welcome to try and prove the existence the supernatural if you like, I will gladly comment on your thoughts.

The old question: “If god created the universe, then what created god?” is usually answered in a similar fashion to your comment “God does not need a creator, because he “has no ingredients”, or “God exists outside time and existence”. But these are simply word play answers and have no real meaning. Both of those concepts are unjustified notions which are not supported by evidence. To make such a claim valid one must prove that a thing can exist outside of time, or that a thing can exist with no ingredients. I could very well propose the concept of a non-thinking, indifferent super-force, with no ingredients, which exist outside of time. I could also say that this force caused of all the matter in our universe to exist. This super-force caused our matter and universe in a way that was accidental, like a by-product of its existence outside of time. I could suggest that when the by-product of this super-force (matter) was created, it was actually the big bang. This super-force, being non-intelligent, was not aware of what it has caused and had no further influence, so after the big gang all of matter ran a natural course which can be explained through natural processes which are documented and observed by science.

WOW! What an interesting concept, seems to have the all same “clutch” arguments as your god argument. Yet, I’m willing to bet it sounded ridiculous. It should, its totally unjustified word play, yet you and everyone on the planet cannot prove my theory false. Should we be inclined to accept it a plausible explanation for the origin of matter? My position is that we should not.


It can’t be proven wrong so…..“That means there’s a chance!” (A chance it’s true)
Your right Rae, but that is not how humans decide what to believe in any other area of life.

For ex: You cannot possibly prove that there are not fairies at the bottom of my garden, but you can prove that the PROBABILITY of that being true is slim, and that is based on the observations and evidence, which give no reason to conclude that fairies are real.
A satellite could fall from the sky and crush you as you leave for work. It’s possible, but so unlikely to happen, so based on the probability that it won’t, you don’t think twice about it when you step outside. When someone IS afraid to go outside because they are scared of falling satellites or garden fairies, we call them crazy or neurotic. Because unjustified beliefs are a characteristic of an irrational person.

So Rae, with all due respect, do you still feel your beliefs in god are justified by some evidence or observable data, or any testable concept? Because before we talk about the bible or resurrection we must first establish whether or not the notion of GOD is a plausible concept. I look forward to your reply.

Religion in Politics

I used to find comfort in knowing that my political representatives were on an invisible religious leash. What i mean by that is this: I thought that a believing person, who had the fear of Gods judgement would be more honest in a position power. However, i no longer support the position in favor of religions ability to control a persons morality. I have found no correlative data to support the idea that religion has control over the individual to self-govern. Sure there are probably people out there who genuinely feel afraid that god is watching and judging their every action and thought, and behave solely because of that fear. To those people i would like to ask this: If you knew there where no God, would you turn to a life of crime? Would you suddenly disregard the feelings, rights and suffering of your fellow humans. Hopefully the answer is no, and I would bet, that even ones feelings of pride when helping someone in need aren't diminished just because there is no subsequent reward by God.

Back to my original point, i was examining the requirements for holding a position of political office. For the most part, the only restrictions were put on age, and time spent as a citizen. You can even be a convicted felon and still be a U.S Representative. This is very scary to me. My daughters teacher in kindergarten needs at least a bachelors degree and a clean record. Aside from the specific requirements noted in the constitution, there are several requirements that are not written, but useful to persons with an interest in a political career. Professed affiliation with certain religious groups, such a Christianity, is certainly important in a country with a population that is over 80% Christian. It is a well known fact that in most areas of this country, if a potential candidate were to identify themselves as an atheist, the public mass disapproval would be the equivalent to political suicide. In order to be a member of government in a modern superpower, one is not required to be a student of political science, economics, law, civil engineering, military history or international relations. One need only be an expert fund raiser, look good and carry his or herself well on television, and profess a belief in the popular mythology. In our present political setup, a well spoken actor with knowledge of the bible, would defeat a quiet genius with a Nobel peace prize, who doesn't accept supernatural doctrines.

This brings me to my point, and my rather recent change of heart. I would support an Atheist candidate just on the idea that he is likely to be more honest than a religious one. While it is true, that we can never know the true motivation of any politician, any man or woman can claim to be religious to gain the upper hand in an election by supporting a popular idea. But only an honest person would claim to be an Atheist knowing that releasing such information would only hinder his or her campaign.

On a final note, i would also like to point out that any politician who claims to act on the authority of God, is the most terrifying person that i can imagine to be in control of a modern superpower. If you consider the strong possibility that God does not exist, you have to wonder, where did that voice that our leaders mistook for God come from? When someone prays for guidance, and then imagines that they heard an answer, they hold that answer to much higher degree of validity than that of their own opinion. They may disregard all reason, and act on whatever advice they imagined came from god. A religious person would certainly feel that the divine advice they received should not be subject to the same scrutiny as advice from a friend. Maybe it was the wind, maybe it was someone in the next room, maybe it was their own internal monologue, maybe it was an imaginary man whom they feel is infallible. Whatever the possibility, it is a truly frightening notion.

The Concept of Self

I am currently working on a thorough and complete argument against religious claims to humans moral dependency on God. It is an important piece of writing for me, because as I've said before, Religion can only attempt to claim jurisdiction in a few areas of understanding, morality and creation. My up coming post is my best effort to put the nail in the coffin on the subject of morality. In the mean time please enjoy an interesting perspective on the human soul that i came across a few years back while visiting The Agnostic Mom. Great debate has been made in the past about possibility of the souls existence. However, science has made such enormous progress in mapping the human mind and is close to a full understanding of how our mind works, the debate is over as far as I'm concerned. We have matured intellectually, and allowed science to eliminate all supernatural hypothesis to describe our world. The concept of the soul has washed away with the rain of science and understanding, but for some reason, a circular debate amongst believers will continue. On the atheist side of the coin, here is a fantastic analogy from Dale McGowan, taken from an interview on http://www.agnosticmom.com/ on the subject of what happens to our "self" when we die....

"Whatever sense of self and personal identity we have springs entirely from the constantly recomposed electrochemical symphony playing in our heads. Some find that horrifying; I find it utterly amazing. And asking where our “self” goes when that electrochemical symphony stops playing is just like asking where the music goes when an orchestra stops playing."
- Dale McGowan

The Easter Story

Sir Lionel Luckhoo is the Guinness book of world records "Most Successful Lawyer", with over 245 successive acquittals for persons charged with murder. He is also a Evangelical author of several famous christian propaganda booklets. In one of these booklets Sir Lionel uses his persuasive lawyer skills to "prove" that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead, and such a fact would hold up in a court of law. Quite an impressive feat no doubt, and yet doubt is my speciality! The reason is am posting this is for two reasons:

1. Today is Easter.

2. I have recently been reassured by a friend that the evidence proving Jesus' Resurrection is very compelling because the most successful lawyer ever is says it would hold up in a court of law.

The first thing that comes to my mind when i hear about a man helping people to be acquitted in over 245 straight murder cases, is this: Statistically some of these people were guilty, and were set free by this alleged pious man. This only goes to show that this mans orator strength is not found in his ability to tell the truth, but rather, his skill is to persuade ones opinion in spite of what is truth. Not a very noble man, in my opinion. Ultimately the claim that "Because a really famous lawyer says the Resurrection story is true, it must be true." does not prove anything. A trial has been famously summarized as 12 people trying to decide who has the best lawyer.

Here is an excerpt from a book called: Losing Faith in Faith, by Dan barker. In this excerpt, Dan shows some of the discrepancies in the gospels accounts of Jesus' Resurrection. I will ask you a jury of my peers, a similar question that has been asked by Dan Barker: Try to decipher some type of story, that would hold up in a court of law, based on the bible.

What time did the women visit the tomb?
Matthew: "as it began to dawn" (28:1)
Mark: "very early in the morning . . . at the rising of the sun" (16:2, KJV); "when the sun had risen" (NRSV); "just after sunrise" (NIV)
Luke: "very early in the morning" (24:1, KJV) "at early dawn" (NRSV)
John: "when it was yet dark" (20:1)

Who were the women?
Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women (24:10)
John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)
What was their purpose?

Matthew: to see the tomb (28:1)
Mark: had already seen the tomb (15:47), brought spices (16:1)
Luke: had already seen the tomb (23:55), brought spices (24:1)
John: the body had already been spiced before they arrived (19:39,40)

Was the tomb open when they arrived?
Matthew: No (28:2)
Mark: Yes (16:4)
Luke: Yes (24:2)
John: Yes (20:1)

Who was at the tomb when they arrived?
Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
Mark: One young man (16:5)
Luke: Two men (24:4)
John: Two angels (20:12)

Where were these messengers situated?
Matthew: Angel sitting on the stone (28:2)
Mark: Young man sitting inside, on the right (16:5)
Luke: Two men standing inside (24:4)
John: Two angels sitting on each end of the bed (20:12)

What did the messenger(s) say?
Matthew: "Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead: and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you." (28:5-7)
Mark: "Be not afrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you." (16:6-7)
Luke: "Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." (24:5-7)
John: "Woman, why weepest thou?" (20:13)

Did the women tell what happened?
Matthew: Yes (28:8)
Mark: No. "Neither said they any thing to any man." (16:8)
Luke: Yes. "And they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven, and to all the rest." (24:9, 22-24)
John: Yes (20:18)

When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected?
Matthew: Yes (28:7-8)
Mark: Yes (16:10,11)
Luke: Yes (24:6-9,23)
John: No (20:2)

When did Mary first see Jesus?
Matthew: Before she returned to the disciples (28:9)
Mark: Before she returned to the disciples (16:9,10)
John: After she returned to the disciples (20:2,14)

Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?
Matthew: Yes (28:9)
John: No (20:17), Yes (20:27)

After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?
Matthew: Eleven disciples (28:16)
Mark: Two disciples in the country, later to eleven (16:12,14)
Luke: Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven (24:13,36)
John: Ten disciples (Judas and Thomas were absent) (20:19, 24)
Paul: First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve? Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)

Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?
Matthew: On a mountain in Galilee (60-100 miles away) (28:16-17)
Mark: To two in the country, to eleven "as they sat at meat" (16:12,14)
Luke: In Emmaus (about seven miles away) at evening, to the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. (24:31, 36)
John: In a room, at evening (20:19)

Did the disciples believe the two men?
Mark: No (16:13)
Luke: Yes (24:34--it is the group speaking here, not the two)

What happened at the appearance?
Matthew: Disciples worshipped, some doubted, "Go preach." (28:17-20)
Mark: Jesus reprimanded them, said "Go preach" (16:14-19)
Luke: Christ incognito, vanishing act, materialized out of thin air, reprimand, supper (24:13-51)
John: Passed through solid door, disciples happy, Jesus blesses them, no reprimand (21:19-23)

Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?
Mark: No (16:19) Compare 16:14 with John 20:19 to show that this was all done on Sunday
Luke: No (24:50-52) It all happened on Sunday
John: Yes, at least eight days (20:26, 21:1-22)
Acts: Yes, at least forty days (1:3)

Where did the ascension take place?
Matthew: No ascension. Book ends on mountain in Galilee
Mark: In or near Jerusalem, after supper (16:19)
Luke: In Bethany, very close to Jerusalem, after supper (24:50-51)
John: No ascension
Paul: No ascension
Acts: Ascended from Mount of Olives (1:9-12)

Special thanks to The Atheist Revolution for the link to Dan Barkers fantastic website.

Obama Speaks To The Muslim World

A few days ago president Barack Obama addressed Turkey with promises of peace, declaring that "The U.S. is not at war with Islam." What a wonderful concept: a Christian nation and a Muslim nation working together for a common good. I wonder if anyone in Muslim audience at the press conference regrets that Barack Obama will burn in hell. That is the accepted belief in Turkey, not about Obama specifically but about all Christians. IF true how unfortunate for the 81% of Americans that feel that 86% Of Turkey will also burn in hell. Apparently our political representatives feel this is a minor obstacle.

While noting this insane viewpoint, its even stranger to watch politicians tip-toe around each others religious viewpoints, both sides feigning respect for each others dogma. I have to question the political sincerity of our efforts. American political policy is riddled with disdain for apparent sin agendas of the pro-choice and homosexuals. I wonder what is considered worse in the Christian mind: Aborting your unborn child, or raising your child Muslim? It would seem that from a Christian perspective, an unborn child would at least have a chance at heaven. Yet from that same perspective, raising a child to worship a false god would seem to be far worse, considering that instilling a child with Muslim beliefs is the christian equivalent of a ticket straight to hell . Why don't Christians openly fight Muslim parents who are sentencing their children to hell?

I wonder..... if turkey was a homosexual nation, would Obama fall under heavy criticism from the right-wing Christians my for his show of diplomacy? I could almost certainly say yes. Would America even attempt diplomacy with a homosexual nation? Probably not, such is the warped perspective of religious logic. Obviously "a homosexual nation" is just a made up concept to illustrate a point. The Christian political agenda, should put more effort into fighting false idol worship, since going to hell is the worst possible thing that could happen to a person. Yet this is not the case, and only further illustrates the inconsistencies of religious views in America. As much as i detest Islamic extremist (or religious extremism in general), at least they are logically consistent in their warped moral beliefs.

I only hope that before the "perceived" end of the world comes, we can overcome these pointless obstacles. I fear that if something were to happen, which humanity thought was the start of the end, Christians certainly wouldn't aid the damned, for fear of damnation themselves, and Muslim nations certainly won't offer any support to infidels. I know Christians won't wanna be caught showing support for the apparent Muslim anti-Christ and his nation if they strongly believe that God is about to make an appearance and reign down fire on the sinners. The same is probably true for Muslims

This whole scenario is not a long shot so long as religion is the primary guide of our action, yet it is so pointless that it makes me disgusted. Perhaps someday people from two different nations can meet and unite together with no imaginary boundaries to lead us to hate or disagree in policy. Disagreements which are based on two incompatible pretend ideas, that shouldn't even be a consideration in matters of great importance.

Great atheistic accomplishments

Recently i was challenged by a friend and fellow blogger, to take a different approach to my debate tactics. Instead of pointing out problems with religion and diminishing its value to mankind, (which is not what i was doing anyway) why not write a piece pointing out all the wonderful things atheism has given humans. I suspect that this fellows request was based on the assumption that i would be hard pressed to find accomplishment that could be directly attributed to atheism. Though he is quite wrong, i feel his comments represent a common misconception about atheism. A misconception that atheist don't carry or possibly even recognize. Maybe this is why atheist don't feel a need to write about this topic very often. The religious or perhaps even agnostics however, do not see what atheism has contributed to society, or why we so proudly promote atheism. I shall do my part to put this concept to rest, and explain why proving atheism's importance is not always the focus of our atheist vs. theist debates, as it is truly common sense, yet unrecognized by mainstream society.

Before i offer some examples of atheistic accomplishments. I must try to define what an atheist is and what an atheistic accomplishment would be.

Atheist- One who believes that there are no supernatural entities.

An atheist looks at all things, as having natural causes. Now having said that, it is possible that many people who believe in a god may still take an atheistic approach to life. Will god help me win the game? Or will practice, hard work and dedication help me? If you feel that practice is more important, then you've taken an atheistic approach to winning. Will god maintain my health? Or will proven things like diet and exercise? If you feel the latter is the correct way, then you've taken an atheistic approach to health. To summarize: An atheistic accomplishment is an accomplishment that can be directly attributed to not-believing in supernatural entities. Now all of a sudden atheism doesn't seem so uncommon does it?

Lets start with all of science: I would like to remind you that everything unexplained was once attributed to God. Learning that hurricanes, volcanoes and earthquakes are not the result of Gods wrath and truly have natural causes, has allowed humans to make very accurate predictions about the "how and when", which I'm sure has chalked up a few saved lives. Then of course there is all of modern medicine. I would like to remind you again, that for thousands of years demons or angry gods made people ill, not viruses. Prior to medicine only religious rituals could aid the ill.

I'm sure you could argue "hey many of the people who made these scientific discoveries were religious." True, yet despite whatever beliefs they held, they took an atheistic approach for solving problems, or rather a scientific approach that does accept the supernatural as a plausible hypothesis. I feel its safe to say that all breakthrough advances in science would be left in the dust if mankind had persist down the religious path and clung to theistic hypothesis to explain our world. In matters of science, atheistic accomplishments are the only accomplishments.

So isn't everyone by that definition kind-of an atheist?

Sure, but not totally, this is what i mean: Today's definition of atheist states that all hypothesis' have a natural origin or explanation. Here's where the total atheist of today and the scientific atheist in practice deviate. While many scientists might take an atheistic approach to solving a problem in biology they still go home and thank god for their life and and many blessings. This is the only difference. Atheism is predominate in all of modern society, it is directly responsible for all advances in science, and yet is completely unrecognized for its contributions by the religious and religious supporters.

Today the domain of the supernatural clings only to morality and creation. That is the difference, when someone today says 'I'm an atheist' they are really only atheistic about two extra subjects than most religious. So why should modern atheist be identified as radical for trying to put a natural hypothesis to explain morality and creation? Great scientist throughout history who refused to accepted the god hypothesis have been viewed as radical. The best example of atheism is our society was pointed out by Richard Dawkins who said: "We are all atheist about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Perhaps if the atheism in all of us was recognized, those of us who push atheism one step further wouldn't seem so radical.

With regard to my thoughts on the atheistic approach I have been told to "Remember, Secular (atheist) scientists fought hard to keep the Big Bang Theory out of the classrooms because they dismissed it as religiously based." This comment was supposed to show how the atheistic approach could hinder science.

I would like to remind everyone that all new idea's in science are dismissed at first, not because of credibility or context, but rather, because the old ideas have so many supporters. Scientist have dedicated there lives to supporting theories, written books, based subsequent theories upon said theories, and are not so quick to have their pride and life's work tossed out. Further, the big bang theory is still in direct contradiction with the genesis version of creation, which states that all of existence was created in six days. Trust me there are a lot of people who still hold this view. The fact that the big bang theory was put forth by a catholic priest named Georges Lemaître only proves that the religious often take an atheistic approach to science. Had he represented the theistic approach he would have directed his efforts to proving how the universe was created in a day, which took place only 6,000 years ago as the holy bible clearly states.

Atheism is an approach to problem solving, its not anything other than that. Those who try and state that atheism is new kind of religion are way off. Such a statement could be compared to calling the scientific method a religion. For truly that's all atheism is; It's just an unrecognized step in the scientific method that rules out supernatural explanations. I'm grateful for atheism, and so should anyone who appreciates the level of knowledge and understanding that we have today.

Creationism Refuted....Again: Star Distances

As i have mentioned before i am making it my personal mission to combat the pseudo science of creationism. Though creationism is not an excepted theory in the scientific community, it is widely excepted in society amongst the religious. While i would not try to dictate what an individual chooses to believe, i would like to help keep information available to atheist and agnostics who might encounter similar twisted logic in in their daily lives and conversations. I would like to repeat that i do not wish do dictate what one should believe. However when such beliefs as creationism try to "move in" on what my children are taught in school i draw the line.

Christians who employ Christian science to justify their beliefs cross over to a slightly different plain of argument then someone who simply chooses belief based on blind faith. Blind faith, does not need justification to the believer, Christian science on the other hand attempts uses the sciences to prove that events in scripture are true and provable, thus they feel they have justified their belief in Christianity. If your not familiar, with creationism or creation theory, I'll give you a short summary.

Everything in the bible, including genesis is a literal account of history. God created the earth in six days, the great flood, Noah's ark, the Earth and universe are only 6000 years old,etc.. What creation theory really creates is a whole list of inconsistency's with accepted ideas about our world. For example when did the dinosaurs live? must have been with humans if the earth is only 6000 years old, what about the rock dating that goes back billions of years? Christian science attempts to answer these questions by reevaluating the evidence.

My refutation of creationism for this post (there are many others!!) is a concept that occurred to me after watching a show about astronomy. It is an example of evidence for the true age of the universe that cannot be viewed in any other manor than a solid contradiction of the young earth theory (another name for creation theory).

The proof about the age of our universe is found in star distances. The basic concept is that we have identified that certain stars have a known distance of billions of light years away. All light, including light emitted from stars has a fixed speed that it can travel. That speed is 299,792,458 meters per second. For many practical purposes, the speed of light is so great that it can be regarded to travel instantaneously. However, the finite speed of light becomes noticeable when applied to very long distances. Like in the case of distant stars. When a star is said to be a million miles away, that means that light from that star will take one million of our earth years to reach our eye. When you look at the night sky, you are basically looking deep into history. To drive the point home image this: If a star that is known to be a million light years away, burned out at the exact second you read this, it would take one million years for that star to vanish from our perspective on earth.

I will not go into the exact means of how a star distance is determined, but the accuracy of determining star distances is very reliable. It has yet to be discredited and even if the math was slightly wrong it would still put the creation theory out of commission. For creation theory to hold true all stars must be located within 6000 light years from earth, or their light would not have even reached us yet! This dilemma is so damming (pun intended) to creationism that while researching this topic i found it was even addressed in a post at GodAndScience.org of all sites!! The article points out what a debate stopper this concept is for creationist. The article is very well worded so i will not attempt to summarize, and i will end my argument with the words from that very post.

It is extremely evident from astronomy that our Universe is billions of light-years across, and thus that light from distant stars has taken billions of years to reach us. One method of accurately determining star distances uses Cepheid variable stars, which have a known relationship between brightness and pulse rate. This relationship is explained by physics, and verified (calibrated) by measuring all Cepheid variable stars whose distances are close enough to confirm by parallax. Therefore, the actual brightness of a Cepheid variable star can be determined by its pulse rate, regardless of how far away it is. And, of course, if a star's actual brightness and measured (apparent) brightness are known, its distance can be calculated from a simple equation (apparent brightness decreases as one over the distance squared). This and many other methods verify Hubble's law describing the expansion of the Universe, with the beginning between 10 and 20 billion years ago. Attempts by young-Earth proponents to explain these facts have been unavailing. Norman and Setterfield's proposal of decay in the speed of light is easily shown to be invalid (Roberts, Ross, and Stoner all deal with this), as is Humphreys' attempt at a young-Earth cosmology (see Conner and Ross (1999)). Another explanation, that the Universe was created with "appearance of age" is both un-scientific at its core (if all the evidence that we see for age is fabricated, then why even have this debate?), as well as having theological problems with the truthfulness of God, since in that case we are constantly observing events in the cosmos which in fact never occurred (see Brain Teaser: SN1987a for an illustrative example of this point).

The eAtheist

Well, The Revolution is no more. I have changed the name of this blog to represent the new direction in life that i have taken. As i have mentioned before in my post about atheist charities, i feel that we must undergo a bit of a public makeover order to really gain mainstream acceptance. I am committed to doing my part and is reflected in the name change of this blog. I have already begun to encourage atheist bloggers and readers to put word atheist directly in the name of whatever topic they represent, for example: If you have a blog about cooking and you are a passionate atheist, then how about the atheist chef. Whatever your focus, if you consider yourself atheist, then represent your position. The atheist carpenter, The atheist mechanic, etc.

Why is that important you ask? What the hell does cooking have to do with Atheism? Well it is a simple part of our public acceptance. Maybe your not aware, but there is a huge stigma attached to the atheist label. Maybe you've noticed that there aren't a lot of politicians out there who openly state "I am an atheist and I represent and support the idea of an atheist society." That is partly because atheist aren't viewed as moral or normal by mainstream society. (It is getting better though.) The more frequently we identify ourselves as atheist, the more organized we seem and the more we will hear people saying "Hey, atheist are everywhere, they're just regular people like you and me." This is a notion is a small but important step in getting representation by public officials, and acceptance in society. I'm not saying its the best idea ever put forth, but its the best idea i have so far. I just want to do my part.

An opposite effect applies to negativity. If the best thing you can think to do is ridicule the religious for their beliefs, then please disassociate yourself from the atheist who are actually trying to make a positive change. Unwarranted negativity, and insulting behaviour, only fuel our negative public image and force this movement to take steps backward. No one ought to call a religious person a moron for the beliefs they hold. Odds are that if you were indoctrinated and raised in their shoes you would think and believe very similar ideas. Please swallow your pride, and be civil, your not just representing yourself, your representing all of us.

Now, as far as this blog is concerned, all future post will have a focus on topics relating to atheism, religious debate, educating readers about the lies in christian science, and equipping the everyday atheist with facts that will help disprove religious fallacy. That is the new mission and direction of this blog. The primary audience that for my future posts will be the everyday atheist or {e}Atheist.

Atheist Charity

It always make me wonder when i hear an atheist call for total removal of religion in America as if there are no good side effects. Its not that i disagree with the former statement, i agree religion has lost its practical purpose in society (if it ever had one), irrational religious beliefs have formed intellectual barriers for thousands of years and all of science and humanity has to deal with it. Ultimately i feel that religion is not intellectually necessary any more, the mechanics of the world can be explained, morality can be defined without scripture.

So it is not that rally cry of fellow atheist that bothers me, it is simply the lack of a plan for phasing out religion. When i ask and atheist "well how do you propose we do that?" I usually get a reply that shows not much thought has been put into it.

The truth is atheist must organize and provide a substitute for religion on several different levels that aren't intellectual. Its not enough to just say "see i told you religious belief was irrational, here is the proof, now quit going to church".

It will not work that way. What we need to do is organize and help people to find a way to satisfy those human needs without religion. Let me offer an example and i bit of personal insight.

I was raised with a loose Christian background. I grew up, read a little bit and became Agnostic, read a bit more and.....drum roll please....now I'm an atheist. Despite the different opinions about religion that I've embraced in my life, one thing has remained the same: My respect for the overwhelming amount of public service that Christian charities and organizations do. Lets face it, Christians donate billions of dollars to charity each year, that money does a lot of good.

So in order to contribute to society i want to start an atheist charitable organization. The idea is new to me and to be honest I've still got a lot of research to do. The main reason for starting an atheist charity (other than obvious reasons) is to help combat the public view about atheists and to offer an alternative to religion for some of that human desire to contribute to society. If atheist are serious about helping the world ween itself off religion, we need to convince society that the world can continue in every aspect through non-religious avenues. Proving religious beliefs to be false and irrational isn't enough. Atheist must show the religious that they don't need to go to church to contribute to mankind or to feel good about themselves. With enough positive organizations and positive media attention, the general public could embrace atheism with i bit more confidence. I hope you see what I'm getting at here:

I imagine a world where people can boast about being part of an atheist organization with the same pride that church goers flaunt as a badge of morality.

I realize that every charity that is non-religious affiliated is essentially an "atheist" organization. That in itself is not good enough for the atheist movement. I really feel we (atheist) need to build organizations with the word atheist right in the title. Like i said, besides obvious reasons to start a charity, building atheist charities and public service organizations will have a strong psychological benefits toward athiests public image and public acceptance, while providing religious alternatives to feel good about oneself.

My initial thoughts, are to have the organization set up for the purpose of charity, helping underprivileged kids perhaps. Unlike the christian organizations, (here's your bible and here's your donated food) i don't wish to distribute atheist literature. (proofs of gods non-existence, etc..) I would strongly caution anyone who wishes to to start an atheist public service organization to use the same approach. I feel that would only cause objections and public opposition that would distract from the cause. Besides there are a ton of atheist websites, books, and just plain 'Ole science for that purpose. I just want to provide a feel-good public service, under the atheist banner.

If you have any suggestion for a specific cause, or name, please comment :)

Creationism proofs refuted

I have been following the pseudo science of creationism lately. More specifically i have been listening to a Christian talk radio show host by the name of Bob Dutko. Bob is the former Press Secretary for the Christian Coalition of America, who also happens to be the epitome of a fundamental Christian. Another of Bobs claim to fame is his CD collection called Top Ten Proofs. His CD called "Top Ten Proofs of Gods Existence" represent the foundation on which "creation science" is built. In this Series of post i will be refuting each and every one of his proofs. I would like to point out that am not a scientist of any sort, however in the realm of creation science i feel i can hold my ground with just some simple logic and common sense.

Before you read Bobs proof, we need to learn a bit about physics, as it will be referenced in a few paragraphs. If you refer to this link of the 2nd law of thermodynamics you will see something about entropy. If you don't want to link out, here is the just of it. The 2nd law implies simply that the energy in the universe will eventually disperse evenly and be used up. Basically the universe metaphorically is like a spring wound watch. You wind the spring, and it holds energy. When the spring unwinds the energy is used up and the watch eventually comes to a rest. We know the universe is currently full of energy so we obviously haven't reached that point. Also the 2nd law proves that the universe as we know it has could not have always been in existence or it would have run out of energy by now and become dead. This is an excepted theory and proves there was in fact a beginning in which all of the energy in the universe was created. Real scientist would call this: The Big Bang.

Here is Bobs first attempt where he invokes the Laws of Thermodynamics to show proof of God.

While Intelligent Design skeptics may claim there is no evidence of God, the actual scientific evidence for God's existence is overwhelming, scientifically answering the question, "does God exist?".
In science there is a Law of Physics called the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. Within it is a Conservation of Energy Law that states, as a key principle that all energy in a closed system must be conserved. Okay, fancy language, but what does that mean? It means that while energy can convert into matter (physical “stuff”), and matter into energy, however much total “stuff” there is (matter and energy), there can never be an increase in that total amount or a decrease in that total amount. So however much total “stuff” there is in the universe, (matter and energy combined), there can never have been more and never have been less. All it can do is convert to different forms, like matter to energy or energy to matter, but the total amount of all of it has to remain the same.
The “closed system” is a scientific term that refers to a system or an “area” that has no outside influence, like the universe. Now, as believers we know, of course, that God does influence the universe, so many believers would consider the universe an “open system”, (one that does get outside influence), but for the atheist who says there is no God, the universe is all there is, so from their perspective and for the sake of conventional science, the universe would get no outside influence and would therefore be considered a “closed system”.
Back to the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. If it states that you can never have an increase or decrease of energy/matter, which means that matter/energy can not be created from nothingness, how did we get all the matter and energy in the universe? If science is all there is and there is no God, then the 1st Law of Thermodynamics reigns supreme and therefore it would be impossible to have matter and energy in existence right now. Simply put, when you open your eyes and see matter and experience energy, what you see is impossible according to the known Laws of science if, in fact, there is no God. Therefore, science itself says there must be a God.
Plain and simple, matter/energy can not come into existence. It is scientifically impossible, yet here we see everything around us, so how can that be? There are really only 3 possibilities. Option A: Everything came into existence by itself anyway, without the help of God, (even though science has proven that impossible). Option B: Everything in the universe has always existed for all of eternity, (which, by the way is also scientifically impossible as explained in the Top Ten Proofs for God's Existence CD due to something called the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics), or Option C: There must be a God, a Being greater than science, who created the Laws of science and has the ability to disobey them. Not only is a belief in God the only logical conclusion to draw, it's the only one scientifically possible because remember, if there is no God, the first two options are scientifically impossible according to the actual Laws of Physics.

Here is my refutation of his Proof

Bobs proof seems to me like a bit of a word game, and is not the first time such a word game is been employed to persuade people of a flawed concept. It reminds me of one of Zeno's paradoxes, which states that:

Achilles is in a footrace with the tortoise. Achilles allows the tortoise a head start of 100 feet. If we suppose that each racer starts running at some constant speed (one very fast and one very slow), then after some finite time, Achilles will have run 100 feet, bringing him to the tortoise's starting point. During this time, the tortoise has run a much shorter distance, say, 10 feet. It will then take Achilles some further time to run that distance, by which time the tortoise will have advanced farther; and then more time still to reach this third point, while the tortoise moves ahead. Thus, whenever Achilles reaches somewhere the tortoise has been, he still has farther to go. Therefore, because there are an infinite number of points Achilles must reach where the tortoise has already been, he can never overtake the tortoise.

This is as obvious misrepresentation of basic physics, but though its worded cleverly it is very deceiving. If the same tactic is applied to a concept that is not familiar (like thermodynamics) it is even more effective.

So here is my take on the big bang: We know that our universe is a closed system, no energy in, no energy out. We know that the 2nd law of thermodynamics proves that energy in our universe had an initial starting point when it was at its peak energy and is slowly being dispersed through entropy. Bob states that this starting point is where all of the universes energy began. But was it? The truth is that when the universe was formed a closed system was created, however we know nothing about how that energy was trapped into the system. I say trapped, because we don't know, and have no reason to believe that it was created when our "closed system" was formed. This is the root of Bobs word game.

Bob draws his conclusion from three unknown facts.

One: there was no existence prior to the formation of our universe.

Two: energy was created initially in the formation of our universe.

Three: God is the default answer where science has a gap.

In reality these first two concepts are still unknown, and the third is just a short cut to any thought at all. Again the only conclusion we can draw for certain, based on laws of thermodynamics, is that when the universe was created a "closed system" was formed. We know nothing about where that energy came from. (The default answer is not God or fairies or any supernatural entity.) There are still many theories being worked out that could explain how both a "closed system" universe is formed and where it could get its energy. One of such theories is known unofficially as The Parent Universe Theory. Which states the possibility of a parent universe which could spawn smaller daughter universes through black holes. It is also theorised that there is a megaverse out there which sections off smaller "closed systems" stacked with energy. Like air passing through a giant tub of soapy water, and releasing bubbles of trapped air.

If you look at how much is still unknown about the physics of our universe the possibilities for an event that would lead to natural occurring universe could be endless, however a supernatural explanation will more likely be Option #1,000,000,000 and not Option C

And so, Bob Dutko, the creationist, looks at his tiny bubble and says this is all that there is, and god is the cause. The energy in this bubble could not have been created due to the 1st law of thermodynamics, and so on.....

Science however will continue to look outside our tiny bubble and continue to give logical and natural occurring explanations for our reality.

Morality without Religion

For thousands of years the nature of ethics and morality has been a argued by philosophers, theologists, and everyone in between. Theologists would credit religion and God for laying the guidelines for good and bad behavior, while philosophers would take an alternative road and investigate the fundamental characteristics that define moral behavior. I would not like to be excluded from the enormous list of people who find interest in this topic, so I will take the uncommon road and offer my take on the basic principles of morality.

While moral codes vary throughout the world, they can be divided into two categories:

1.Morals with regard to religion.
2.Morals with regard to society.

It is possible for both types of morality to exist in the same environments, for example: In America the majority of citizens have religious guidelines for their actions and behavior, but they are not necessarily laws or mandatory behavior. Conversely, an example of a single morality would be a Muslim nation, were religious guidelines dictate law and social behavior.

I will not discuss morality in relation to religion, due to its obvious origin in religious text. The concept here is to imagine that there were no religious text to provide moral guidelines and we were left with determining the nature of morality.

The morality of society:
In society, the concept of good morality can be defined as an absence of bad morality. This is due to the fact that one is not obligated to do good, or in other words it is not enforced, demanded, required, in any aspect of society, however a lack of bad behavior is required. Bad behavior in many forms is prohibited.
Also, the principles of good morals are subjective to the individual, and are not as universal as bad morality, and thus harder to define. If you wish to offer your definition, feel free to comment in that regard.

The four basic principles of immoral behavior.
These are the defining principles that an action or behavior must have in order to qualify as immoral.

1. One rational person
2. The action (or not acting with regard to obligation)of the rational person must, in some manner affect another.
3. The rational person must act intentionally
4. The affected must dislike the manner in which it was affected.
These four principles are then, influenced by two variables.

Two moral variables:
1. Consideration for the circumstances surrounding the action.
2. A common agreement on the dislike, like or indifference felt in regard to action and circumstances.

I am sure this sounds vague, lets clarify each principle so that there is no misunderstanding of what i mean.

Principle 1: One rational person.
I recently discussed this topic with a fellow blogger, who pointed out that if a tree falls on a person, the tree is not considered immoral. Therefore the two entities must be rational, able to think and understand their surroundings. Why do i keep saying entities instead of people?
Principle 2: The action of one rational person must, in some manner affect another.
For the most part its redundant to state this as a principle, due to the fact that almost everything you can physically "do" will affect someone. Yet it must be noted for the sake of eliminating exceptions: If your actions do not affect anyone surrounding you in any way, they cannot be immoral. (Religious morals are different, if you are by yourself and no one is affected, a divine entity is still aware of your action.) In the case of society, someone must be affected, this includes when they are affected by not acting when one has an obligation to another.

Principle 3: Did the rational person act intentionally?
An unintentional act needs some definition. It is the obligation of the individual to know or to try and learn how his or her actions will affect his or her surroundings. If such obligations are fulfilled, and the action still affects another in a way unintended, the action cannot be immoral.

Principle 4:Did the affected dislike the manner in which it was affected.
This principle is important. While many would state that morality has a direct or indirect correlation with harm or suffering. I do not agree. I would say that harm is a one factor that determines moral behavior, yet it is not a fundamental requirement. For example lying, nudity, using curse words: these are actions that do not always correlate with harm. I feel that immoral behavior is always disliked, yet the causes for dislike are subjective and hard (if not impossible) to define. Here are some examples of vague immorality: A behavior could be disliked because it might generate, or perpetuate a different immoral act.
A behavior might be disliked because it hinders the development of society.

Now the two variables:
Variable 1. Circumstance is very essential in determining bad behavior. To state that murder is always wrong would be incorrect. It is acceptable for self defense, national security, as well as many other possible scenarios. One must determine the circumstances surrounding the action in order to judge correctly.

Variable 1. This is the key to determining all that is right and wrong. There have been many who would say that an action is only good or bad when you perceive it that way. Its the "glass is half full" philosophy. I say the glass is half full only when the majority of society agrees that it is half full.

Every action must be weighed from the eyes of the doer and receiver. If my actions affect someone and i am pleased, i must ask would i be equally pleased if everyone acted in this manner? The answer to this question will give the action its moral definition.
In a way its a similar concept to the "golden rule". (do on to others as you would have done to yourself.)

I spoke with someone who had an objection this concept and offered this scenario to illustrate the contradictions of the golden rule:

If you walk into a shoe store, the store owner wants you to by a pair of shoes, he will be displeased if you leave empty handed. Yet you don't buy anything because his shoes are too expensive. If you where a store owner you would be displeased if he did not buy your shoes, yet if the owner was shopping he would want a deal too. What the customer wants and what the store owner wants conflict. In this case it is impossible to "do on to others as as you would have done to yourself." So which behavior is immoral not buying shoes or not lowering his prices?

The answer can be found in the second of the four principles.
Suppose the customer never went into the shoe store, financially this is the same for the owner as someone shopping and not buying, in either case he is not affected by the customer. The customer was simply not acting and there was no obligation to buy. Therefore not buying his shoes does not meet all four requirements found in immoral behavior. In fact neither position meets all of the required principles, and therefore cannot even be judged as moral or immoral.

If you apply anything labeled immoral in our society, i think you'll find that it meets my requirements. If you do find some error, please comment accordingly. The goal here is not to prove that I'm right, but to find a formula for determining morality.


For other interesting discussions on morality please visit http://www.wayofthemind.org/

Born again Atheist

I have always considered myself a straight forward, "hard core" (pun intended) Agnostic. I was the epitome of fence sitting. I have thought to myself 'This is the only correct logical position to hold with regard to supernatural entities', due to, what i felt was a lack of evidence on both parts. In fact i have gone out of my way to support this position throughout this blog. I have made it clear that i feel the existence of god(s) is unknowable. However recently I've read a few fantastic books, one of which is "The God Delusion" by famous Atheist, Richard Dawkins. Richard classified Agnostics by two categories:

TAP
Temporary Agnostic in practice

This means: only agnostic about a hypothesis until the verdict is in and the evidence confirms its truth or fallacy.

PAP
Permanent Agnostic in Principle

This means: Permanently Agnostic due to the belief that the hypothesis in question will always remain unanswerable.



Upon recent reflection and "soul searching" i have realized that my position as a PAP is a paradox. I have decided (logically i hope) that claiming that a thing is unknowable is in essence making a claim about the unknown outcome of future knowledge. Summarize in less philosophical mumbo jumbo:

If-

One claims that gods existence or non-existence will forever be a question without an answer.

That sentence in itself is a statement of knowledge.

I cannot know that it will forever be an unanswered question.

Thus to be a Permanent Agnostic in Principle is a paradox.

So....I changed my position to that of the TAP, a wise position to hold if uneducated about matters of religion. For most who are uninformed, this is the only "safe" or logical position to hold. However in light of my recent education via Richard Dawkins, i can use the shading of probability to determine whether or not there is a high, low or neutral probability of god(s) existence. I can safely say that i now share the atheist point of view on matters of the supernatural, due to what i have found is a high probability of god(s) non-existence.

Here is an example of what i mean by the shading of probability and how it changes our perception of what is reality:

One could say that i should not go outside because i might be killed by a satellite falling out of orbit and smashing me to a pulp. I know that the probability of that event happening to me is very, very, slim to none (for the record i feel the existence of god is less probable than this example) though i cannot with 100% certainty say that such an event is impossible, no one would hold the opinion that this as a real danger. Nor should one logically base any bit of their life on this possibility.

If you claim there is a god, i cannot prove that you are wrong with 100% certainty, However with the shading of probability i feel confident that you are almost certainly wrong.

I will be updating The Revolution with many new blogs on the subject of Atheism and the logic behind this position. I will also be updating past posts, where i feel i was holding an incorrect position. Please keep that in mind while reading any post prior to this date. Hopefully readers will continue to add there wonderful comments, and we can continue to debate and discuss the subject.